we talked about the pledge...what about this...

EMA

New Member
I received this in one of those pass it on emails and it pisses me off. I'm not a deeply religious person, I have my feelings, ideas and values. I respect everyones freedom to choice of religion, or lack there of. I can understand people not wanting to force religion onto others, but I agree with this.... you should not change historical events!

"Today I went to visit the new World War II Memorial in Washington, DC I got an unexpected history lesson. Because I'm a baby boomer, I was one of the youngest in the crowd. Most were the age of my parents, veterans of "the greatest war," with their families. It was a beautiful day, and people were smiling and happy to be there.

Hundreds of us milled around the memorial, reading the inspiring words of Eisenhower and Truman that are engraved there.

On the Pacific side of the memorial, a group of us gathered to read the words President Roosevelt used to announce the attack on Pearl Harbor:

Yesterday, December 7, 1941-- a date which will live in infamy--the United
States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked.

One elderly woman read the words aloud:

With confidence in our armed forces, with the unbounding determination of
our people, we will gain the inevitable triumph.

But as she read, she suddenly turned angry. "Wait a minute," she said, "they left out the end of the quote. They left out the most important part. Roosevelt ended the message with "so help us God.'"


Her husband said, "You are probably right. We're not supposed to say things like that now."

"I know I'm right," she insisted. "I remember the speech." The two looked dismayed, shook their heads sadly and walked away.

Listening to their conversation, I thought to myself, "Well, it has been over 50 years. She's probably forgotten."

But she had not forgotten. She was right.

I went home and pulled out the book my book club is reading --- "Flags of Our Fathers" by James Bradley. It's all about the battle at Iwo Jima. I haven't gotten too far in the book. It's tough to read because it's a graphic description of the WWII battles in the Pacific.

But right there it was on page 58. Roosevelt's speech to the nation ends in "so help us God."

The people who edited out that part of the speech when they engraved it on the memorial could have fooled me. I was born after the war... But they couldn't fool the people who were there. Roosevelt's words are engraved on their hearts.

Now I ask: "WHO GAVE THEM THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE WORDS OF
HISTORY?????????""
 
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psychonaut13

New Member
while i agree with you that they should NOT have left that part of the quote out....you have to consider something else.

you seem to be mostly upset that it is history being messed with here...but every single history book you ever read in high school, and almost every history book you'll be taught out of in college are flawed with the bias of the american historical society.

another thing to consider is that all historical recountings have the indelible(did someone call my name????:wink:) mark of their author's PERSPECTIVE! to us...ben franklin was a genuis and a hero. to the british, he was a traiter, a womanizer, a drunk, and a scoundrel. same goes for george washington.

i think it's preposterous that the quote was edited in that manner....and i think everyone could use a bit more empathy and tolerance.
 

Swearengen

New Member
Makes you wonder if future history books will explain how Hillary's hunger for power made her overlook that cumshot on Monica's dress.
 

blze

New Member
doubt everything/believe everything, who was it that said that was
teh 2 easiest ways to live life? history has been tampered with since
history was the present (rofl, your brain just cramped) and so i cant
force myself to worry too much about it. i wish i read the whole first
post now...
 

Swearengen

New Member
"The victor gets to write the history books" ---an old quote (which i know i screwed up a bit) that is VERY true. I agree that history has each writer's perspective written into it---but to knock a few words off a famous speech is ludicrous. Where does it stop? A few years ago they had a fig leaf on Michelangelo's "David" for a few museum/art exhibitions. I laughed about the stupidity of it back then, but censors like them just keep on winning.
 

MeanMugginFool

New Member
How long do you think it will be before they "drop" words from the Constitution? Personally, I think this whole censorship of anything God has gotten way out of hand. When you look at it, seperation of church and state has been skewed way out of its original intent, which was to avoid the establishment of a singular, national religion. This country was founded on the basis of religion, the ability for all to worship freely. Now before any of you jump all over me, this does not mean I think we should be praying in schools and the like. I'm just saying that one should recognize that religion has been more a part of this nation's history than some people admit and realize, whichever version of it you accept.
 

Casualty

New Member
also today i was talking to a friend/coworker and he mentioned something interesting which i hope to investigate...

he said that 'seperation of church and state' is not in fact a qoute from the constitution, but a intepretation of it. ill will certainly be checking that out
 

EMA

New Member
Casualty said:
also today i was talking to a friend/coworker and he mentioned something interesting which i hope to investigate...

he said that 'seperation of church and state' is not in fact a qoute from the constitution, but a intepretation of it. ill will certainly be checking that out

let us all know what you find out...i'm interested
 

MeanMugginFool

New Member
Casualty said:
also today i was talking to a friend/coworker and he mentioned something interesting which i hope to investigate...

he said that 'seperation of church and state' is not in fact a qoute from the constitution, but a intepretation of it. ill will certainly be checking that out

Your friend/co-worker is correct. The words "seperation", "church", and "state" do not even appear in the first amendment of the Constitution, where people say the idea of a seperation of church and state is derived from. Supposedly that phrase came from a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to a group of Baptists who were concerned that another religion was rumored to be adopted as the national religion, thus replaying the whole Church of England debacle that forced many of the settlers to leave and come to America. Remember, the reason people came to this country is freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.
 

Casualty

New Member
http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_reli.html

yes it seems he is correct, i read this whole page(its quite lengthy) and it goes overevery major case dealing with seperation. a very good read to anyone interested in what will soon be a hot subject.

this is a 3rd party website, however he(the author/creator of the site) isnt biased either way it seems. he is jsut stating facts, explaining history.
 

Dirty

New Member
stupid ficking kids, stupid fucking school, stupid fucking, fuck it all, fuck this shit!


goddamn waste of fucking space and meat this damn human, FUCK!
 
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Swearengen

New Member
I'm going off on a historical tangent and I'm not even drunk...but I am trying...

Changing historical record is not only wrong, it is hazardous. The main reason for studying history is so that you learn from the past (mistakes and fortunate events) and gain the knowledge needed to improve yourself and/or society.

When omissions, half-truths, and lies become history we are all fucked.
 
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