Fear the Lord Christian Clan

[Seawied]

Your assumptions about me are wrong.
I am not assuming that "A) Scientists are out to disprove God" or that they aren't looking for the answer to ratify God.
I have already mentioned the movement currently underway to ratify both science and religion. (not that new) I have also mentioned that I am not against science, that I see it as a revelation of God's creation. What everything is made of and how it works, I see it all as what God did, and me learning more how it happened. The Bible doesn't give these answers. It doesn't explain it, it just mentions it. So, therefore I love the fact that we have science to further our understanding.
On a different note, the bible was written at a certain time, in a certain place, in the language of a certain people. That time, place, and people connected with shepherding and farming analogies. Saying our Lord is our Shepherd and we are His sheep is just an analogy to how much he actively cares for us, not for how we think. It tells us God is ACTIVE in our life, instead of passive.
What I am trying to do, is attack a few "scientists" who are on this forum who have already stated that they are in fact against the existence of God.
Furthermore, I am trying to use science and logic to construct some kind of case for God. Think about that for a minute. What if it were reversed? What if I asked you to use religion to prove science? What would you come up with? Or would you just say science proves itself? As for creating non-thinking sheep, why not teach both sides in schools? Wouldn't that create the environment where students could see both sides and actually decide for themselves? By only teaching science, aren't you, in fact, making little science sheep? Saying, only by following these protocols, can I believe anything.

There are tons of issues that science can not touch. Likewise, there are tons of issues that religion will never do a good enough job to convince everyone. Even if religion were able to get everyone, it would still be divided into groups that say the other is wrong, and that they alone are right.
Science is no different. They are just as obstinate as a Biblical literalist, or a Jehovah's witness, or an Islamic radical, etc.
We could do this for years, but after every argument, at the very best outcome, the scientist would say, "I'm still not convinced" and I would say, "I am convinced."

Even if God came down right now, showed himself to everyone, and said, "Here I am, I am God, I am real, believe in me now", and then did 10 miracles and let cameras film Him, there would STILL be scientists who would say that they would have to see Him more than once, or do something else, or fit into a hypothesis or a protocol.

At no time have I tried to say that my way was the only way, that I have all the answers, that anyone else is retarded, or that you must dismiss your ways and adopt mine. Hell, I started my responses based on the moderators comments about a crucifix....

read my previous post. I never claimed that you found science a tool to try to disprove God. My argument was that the Church has and encourages a culture of unquestioning sheep like nature. Caleeb, however, is a prime example of this.



now here's an example of trying to use Science to prove god's existence. Are you familiar with the flying spaghetti monster? Read up on this http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/

Logically it is impossible to prove or disprove god. You can no more prove god's existence in the world than you can disprove my belief that there is an invisible flying pink rhino in the same room as you.

So, the REAL question is this - What would it take to convince YOU? That is the ONLY difference between us. I had my moment. I became convinced. I live that conviction and each day reaffirms my decision. (Remember, I lived both lives, so I do have that to compare it to in my personal life.) Also, I previously stated that it was the correct choice for ME.

no no no, thats not the real question at all. My beliefs do not even apply here. Focus on the issues presented here about individual arguments you've offered to respond to about issues with the Christian faith. Opening up "my faith vs your faith" is a whole different can of worms turns everything into a internet slap fight so to speak. I'm arguing based on the assumption that while with most reasonable (and you don't seem to be too terribly unreasonable) you might be able to change the perception of someone on a specific argument about a small issue over the internet, but you will never change the other's general faith. My goal is not to dissolve your belief in the Christian faith, as that would be naive and foolish of me, but rather to debate you on your individual claims, like evolution is wrong, or that the Church romanticizes a sheep-mindset

 

[illspirit]

You keep talking about your life, and how "god" turned it around. If thinking there is a god helps you sleep at night, then go for it. I lived both lives too.

Born and raised protestant Christian, went to a Catholic grammar school, and went to a Catholic High School. I lived with Jesuit monks for a month and I've been on retreats such as Kairos. I know what it's like to believe in a god, I've seen the unquestioning zombies that the church primarily consists of. I've seen what our "god" lets happen. I no longer believe in god. I was a mentoring program, I give money to various organizations, I'm a volunteer paramedic., and yet these self righteous Christians tell me I'm not going to their heaven. God isn't putting respirators on these people so they can breath, I am. You keep saying you lived both lives, my life is fine without a god. I've said it multiple times, if there is an omnipotent, all powerful god out there, he did a terrible job, and he's no god of mine. It sounds like you're weak inside and you "need" there to be a god. Caleeb, you're one of these zombies I speak of, please do yourself a favor and stop posting.

Like I said, if a god helps you sleep at night, go for it.

 

[caleeb12]

But you're only able to save them through God's Will. And being a good person won't get you into Heaven.

 

[MooCowMan]

But you're only able to save them through God's Will. And being a good person won't get you into Heaven.

You're such a tool.

 

[PLaTiNuM428]

Illspriit- I now think much higher of you. I think what you do is great. Also, I'm sorry you had to witness so many weak-minded sheep. I've seen a lot of them too. It's sad. The best I can feel for them, is that at least they seem happy.

Seawied - about the assumptions, your post said the whole church, and I thought I would be included in that entirety. Also, yes, I do know the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I bought the book 2 or 3 years ago. It's a funny book. It also illustrates the problem quite well.
You mention "individual arguments" that I'm not focusing on. I'm still willing to respond to those. What started off as questions (meant to be humorous and bashing), I answered. Then it got turned into Science vs Religion over Evolution. I wanted to end that debate, b/c it is pointless. I believe species evolve and that it doesn't hurt my belief in God.
Both sides lack the proof necessary to ever win, and yes, it does come down to what it would take to convince someone, either way.
I would love to go back to just answering or discussing other things. I would also like to take this back away from a forum fight.

 

[Seawied]

Bashing? Theres a big difference between satire and bashing. Bashing would be "LAWL ALL XTIANS ARE TOOLS ROFLCOPTER", satire takes a real concept and applies it in a different, often humorous scenario to make a point.

You mention "individual arguments" that I'm not focusing on. I'm still willing to respond to those. What started off as questions (meant to be humorous and bashing), I answered. Then it got turned into Science vs Religion over Evolution. I wanted to end that debate, b/c it is pointless. I believe species evolve and that it doesn't hurt my belief in God.

thank you, this is all I wanted to hear.

Both sides lack the proof necessary to ever win, and yes, it does come down to what it would take to convince someone, either way

this is, however, untrue. Much like your analogy that if God came down and preformed 10 miracles, some people would still not believe in him, if mankind was old enough to witness evolution of dinosaurs until present day animals, some religious folks would still choose not to believe in it. The current evidence is there to prove that evolution does indeed happen. The only thing left is piecing enough old bones together to accurately depict present day ancestors.

Additionally, if you do the statistics of it, evolution is just a fancy word for +EV

 

[PLaTiNuM428]

No, I meant what I said. I know the difference between satire and bashing. There was originally bashing as well. The satire I just found humorous.

Evolve. Sorry, kind of a tricky word. I believe things become better suited to the world, that they "evolve". I had put it in another post about not believing we came from a primordial ooze or from chimps. Sorry, that's my bad.

As for the proof. Still no, we didn't live back then or are we going to live long enough to witness it, just like God didn't come down and announce Himself yesterday.

 

[Jordan B]

Seriously, this thread is going nowhere. Can someone else please start a "Do you believe in god" thread?

I'm not really sure whether I believe in god or not. I'm sure there must be a higher power or something, but if there is, he lets too many innocent people die, in African independant countries, Mexico, and all around the world.

Either way, whether this is balancing the worlds population or not, I need to see real evidence before I commit to believing.

Close thread please Love. 10 Pages about Religion for a Clan Recruitment Thread.

 

[illspirit]

I love backseat moderators. If Love wanted this thread closed, he wouldn't have "started" it. Get the fuck out.

 

[caleeb12]

for once I agree with ill.

 

[Seawied]

for once I agree with ill.

a small part of hell just froze over

 

[illspirit]

for once I agree with ill.

You can get the fuck out too.

 

[MooCowMan]

a small part of hell just froze over

Yeah.. my part. Fuckers, it's cold now!

 

[PLaTiNuM428]

LOL!
Happiest I've been after a comment thus far.

 

[Illdouche]

You can get the fuck out too.